Let me be clear here: this is not an attack on Christian or Evangelical beliefs or practices (everyone knows I'm a raging atheist) but specifically the views of Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. I think his interpretation of Ephesians 5:22-28 is much more extreme than the beautiful one Jen has given. His views towards women are clear to me in his official stance on divorce and abortion. Let the discussion continue!
Due to a surprise snowfall last night, SFU is closed today so there are thousands of students at home, probably sleeping. I'm catching up on some podcasts I subscribe to and found this clip from the Dec 23, 2009 episode of the Rachel Maddow Show: an interview with The Nation writer Katha Pollitt about Obama choice of evangelical crazy Rick Warren to lead the invocation prayer at the Jan 20 inauguration in just two weeks. Warren is the head of the Saddleback (mega)Church of Orange County, known for his genial personality but also his extremely conservative politics. Because Prop 8, which took away marriage rights from gays and lesbians in California, is still fresh Obama's choice is a huge blow to the LGBTQ community. Warren's has gone on the record comparing homosexuality to incest and pedophilia:
"The issue to me, I'm not opposed to that as much as I'm opposed to redefinition of a 5,000 year definition of marriage. I'm opposed to having a brother and sister being together and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage."Hey, Rick Warren, you're freaking me out. This is the guy that is going to lead a nation in prayer at the ceremony that is touted as the start of a new era that's more inclusive. Because I just watched The Savages, here's a quote from the movie which I think is particularly appropriate, just switch out "Wendy" for "America": "Hey Wendy, this isn't the time to regress."
But the really scary part of all of this is Warren's doctrines regarding women's rights, which, in my opinion, haven't been properly covered by the press. Pollitt discusses some of these with Maddow in the clip below and wrote a corresponding piece for the LA Times (I insist you read this).
If you're super keen to know about what those freaky undertones are in Warren's sermon on Jan 20, you can check out Saddleback Church's "Bible Q & A." Questions No. 22 and 32 are especially interesting. That isn't Warren talking but these are the views of his church; that is, gays and lesbians cannot be members of the church and that abuse alone is not enough grounds for a divorce. Not to mention,
"At his Saddleback Church, wifely submission is official doctrine: The church website tells women to defer to their husband's "leadership" even when he's wrong on important issues, such as finances. Never mind if she's an accountant and he flunked long division, or if she wants to beef up the kids' college fund and he wants to buy shares in the Brooklyn Bridge. The godly answer is supposed to be "yes, dear." Is elevating this male chauvinist how President-elect Obama thanks women, who gave him more than half his votes?" (Pollitt)Obama's team announced the choice on December 17 and eyes are on Israel now. In all likeliness, it's too late to pull Warren from the program but I really wish they would.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
More opinions and reading on Warren from HuffPo, because I have the tabs open:
* Discussion on AC360 [video]
* Melissa Etheridge Op-Ed
4 comments:
So...for the Christian persepective:
In regards to the quote from Pollitt, there are a few misconceptions. The church's doctrine on wifely submission comes from the Bible in Ephesians 5:22-28:
" Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.."
They believe that wives should submit to their husbands...and then that husbands should love their wives the way Jesus loved the church; their belief being that Jesus loved the church so much he died and went to Gahenna (hell) for it, that he would do anything and everything for the church.
And one more thing:
Everyone seems to know that Rick Warren and his church won't let gays and lesbians become members; they also won't let those who are practicing fornication (premarital sex...), those who get drunk(not alcoholics..just alochol consumption in excess every now and again),or use profanity become members. Membership means being baptized by the church, and the church will not baptize anyone who is not trying to change their life and make it follow the rules laid out in the "New Testament" of the Bible. All of these people, though not members, can still regularily attend the church and participate in its events and be accepted by the community. They just arent immersed in water.
This was a dope post. I'm totally going to add you to my facebook. Right now.
Whether husbands are supposed to love their wives enough to die for them, it's still absurd that women are supposed to defer to men now and forever on the basis of an archaic definition of marriage that is based completely in the subjugation of women by men rather than logic, equality, respect, or ethics.
Sentiments like that justify things like spousal abuse and marital rape. They might be described beautifully in Ephesians, but so was pedophilia in Lolita.
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